Please no AS3 for Coldfusion

Tags: Coldfusion

I am bloggin this here, this is a post that I made on another blog. And I am sorry for you small amount of AS3 developers, but I see no need for it to be included as part of Coldfusion.

Feel free to make your comments, but unless there is a very compelling reason other than why learn another language is not a reason. I mean you aleady had to do that, when going from Coldfusion to Flex anyway.

Anyway here is my comment that I made. I think that the major issue is that CFScript sucks, and that just because there are so many people now doing AS3 / flex development is NOT a reason to adopt that into a language that really doesn't need it.

I guess I am looking at it from the point of view that if there is more than a well we can program AS3 over there, why can't we here.

In my 12 years of Coldfusion development, CFScript has got to have been one of the most exciting things that was introduced all those years ago. But it was also the biggest let down as well.

In my opinion, and I know it isn't that hard to do. As I am able to do it with openBD, would be to levergae of JSP type syntax. The engine is built ontop of java, it has this capability why had further complexity to the situation. I mean, how nice would it be to have a .cfml page running that could not only run its native language, but to also run jsp?

If anything I would have more liked to have seen AS3, really become more like the server sided language. But this went down that track because of Flash and keeping it more simple to learn.

I personally do not see any benefit to having AS3 on the server, other than the fact a user is not learning another language. But what about the Enterprise market, where there are more Java developers than AS3 developers, do you alienate those users just to please a small handful of designers?

I don't think so.

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  • Dale Fraser's Gravatar I want AS3 for ColdFusion. I think it would be good for ColdFusion, ie a lot of Flex / Flash people would come to ColdFusion rather than use Java etc. Plus I just prefer writing code in a OO ECMA script rather than CFML or CFSCRIPT.

    So as per usual, im on the other side of the fence to you. I don't really understand why you wouldn't think it was a good idea, would you prefer nothing or a different syntax, ie Java?
    # Posted By Dale Fraser | 5/11/08 8:07 PM
  • Andrew Scott's Gravatar @Dale, as someone else has mentioned on the original blog I made this post. AS3 is extremely close to Java in syntax anyway, so if that is the case who really cares then.

    I do, the reason being is that Coldfusion already has the added overhead of having to compile its code to Java bytecode. Why would you want to add to that complexity, it makes more sense to remove that and go with what Coldfusion has natively underneath its hood.

    So having said that, it would mean alot more than just getting a few Designers that currently use Flex to begin coding in Coldfusion as its backend. But it also opens up the fact that Enterprise Solutions that could potentially use Coldfusion can be seen more serioulsy, why is that. Because Coldfusion can be seen to integrate (and yes we cf'ers already know this) more easily into java, and it would open more doors than a few Flex developers.

    Seriously, have you seen how long it takes to compile to bytecode, and if it was upto me as a developer on the Coldfusion team I would be showing more pros to using Java syntax than there ever would be to using AS3.

    Look at it this way Dale, you not only have to please Flex developers. But Coldfusion lacks market share in the Enterprise market as it is, and by adopting an OO scripting style that is already avilable to Coldfusion makes more sense than AS3 does any time of the day.

    Its not about pleasing you, it is about pleasing everyone who uses the product, and that means improving its performance at runtime as well.

    Try running a jsp page that does something simple, like a loop and add it to a variable, then run that same code in CFML. And you will be surprised at how much of a difference there is in execution time. Even cached in Coldfusion is slower running that script than it is in jsp.

    To me that is worth more than just pleasing one or two people.


    # Posted By Andrew Scott | 5/11/08 8:18 PM
  • Dale Fraser's Gravatar I understand what you are saying, but I think there is merit in Adobe having a single language, ActionScript. They are talking about more CFSCRIPT support in CF9, I just hope it includes AS3, but Java syntax would be ok also. writing tags is oldschool and would like to move away from it one way or another, the fact that CFSCRIPT is only partially implemented is just anoying.
    # Posted By Dale Fraser | 5/11/08 8:25 PM
  • Andrew Scott's Gravatar Dale, I am sorry I don't agree with the "Makes more sense to adopt one style of language". Thats my point to you, if AS3 is so close to Java then Adobe should have adopted the java syntax on that side of the fence to begin with.

    We hearald Coldfusion as being able to compile to Java, we hearald it as being able to interact with Java more, either by CFX tags, or even servlets and via the getPageContext(). Why not go one step further.

    I mean it makse more sense (As you say) to adopt a single language, so why is it that Coldfusion has to adopt that way. More people use Coldfusion, than just a few AS3 developers. The bigger pisture says no to AS3.

    I mean, next we will telling php, .Net, perl, rails to name a few that they have to now adopt AS3, Why because it would be good to adopt a single language, so these developers can interface easier into Flex.

    It doesn't work that way, and I am sorry I wouldn't want AS3 in Coldfusion as a replacement to cfscript at all.

    It is about speed, and the execution time that is needed to run CFML.

    There are far more cons to using AS3 than there are pros to usinig Java syntax. The reason I haven't learnt AS3 is for the exact reason you want it in Coldfusion, I don't have the time to learn it. We don't use it either.

    I mean if you had figures to say that more than 80% of developers where doing Flex development then that could be a strong case to adopt AS3.

    Sorry Dale, I will not agree with you on this one either. I have been around Coldfusion long enough to know that AS3 is not the answer.
    # Posted By Andrew Scott | 5/11/08 8:35 PM
  • Dale Fraser's Gravatar Well, we can agree to disagree as usual. I think you might find (I have no figures) that Flex could have as many if not more users than ColdFusion already. I know the flex lists get a lot more posts than the CF ones, but that could be because it's new.

    Like other products, ColdFusion could support different languages. The compile time is not really an issue as once it's compiled it's done, so this is just a once off hit each time you change your code.
    # Posted By Dale Fraser | 5/11/08 9:03 PM
  • Andrew Scott's Gravatar Dale, that's correct we will agree to disagree. I stand by the fact that this NON Application server does NOT need having AS3, and there is a better alternative than to please some Flex developers.
    # Posted By Andrew Scott | 5/11/08 9:09 PM
  • Andrew Scott's Gravatar @Dale: Well then, why argue against/for something that is lost on you?
    # Posted By Andrew Scott | 5/11/08 10:13 PM
  • Raul Riera's Gravatar There are more AS3 developers that there are CF ones (I am actually both of them) and yes, having AS3 in ColdFusion is a terrible idea, its like the CFFORM format to flash, if you are going to do that, DO IT IN FLEX.

    Server side is for ColdFusion, client side is for Flex... there shouldnt be mixed
    # Posted By Raul Riera | 5/12/08 3:11 AM
  • Andrew Scott's Gravatar Now there is a challenge for a poll:-) I actually doubt that there are more AS3 developers than Coldfusion, but prove me wrong.
    # Posted By Andrew Scott | 5/12/08 4:15 AM
  • Raul Riera's Gravatar If you do that poll in a ColdFusion blog, it would be a little unfair :P
    # Posted By Raul Riera | 5/12/08 5:12 AM

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