Coldfusion and frameworks

I would like to touch on a subject that has over time, not really been given much thought or if it has it hasn't been heavily discussed.

Coldfusion is a very niche market, that appears that will remain in that state for a long time to come. And although this is something that can be changed, it doesn't appear to be very high on Adobe's list at the moment.

There are a number of factors that this assumption is made on, but that can be debated another timer. For now I would like to talk about frameworks, and how they can and do impact our working life.

When we sit down and plan our next application, or development life cycle on a product or existing application. We are faced with a number of frameworks, that could hinder or make the application. The decision to go with one over the other is a lot to do with future support, and most importantly features that we need to get our job done.

One framework that I am a huge fan of is Coldbox, the amount of features and documentation that Luis has put into this is amazing to say the least. But this type of framework is not the be all and end all to get the work done with either, and that leaves us to discuss the pitfalls of picking one framework over another and that is the developer of the framework.

So far Fusebox has to be the oldest well know open source framework out there, and has a lot of followers to it. But what would you do if the developer was hit with no more time to develop this anymore, or the fact that it just dies by the wayside what do you do.

I know a lot of developers who will not use these type of frameworks, for that very reason and it is a very justified reason to expect that the decision you make is going to see you through the life of the application.

Sean Corfield posted a blog recently, and I am sure most of you have read this by now. However in case you haven't here is the link.

Is Model-Glue Dead?

The problem that Sean has indicated is the lack of time that one person has to continue to develop these frameworks, most of this is because they don't get a great deal of support to help and sometimes we developers are not fully aware that we can do this. I have always been a big advocate that ColdFusion should begin to adopt an MVC framework in the core language, the main reason for this is that there are by far too many entry points into the language. And it keeps growing, with no forethought into the overall problem that it keeps adding too.

Again that is another debate for another time.

What I would like to begin to see, and I think it was touched on by one of the comments posted on Sean's blog. And even though Ray Camden has created a very wonderful site for a repository of open source projects, I think as a community we can do more and the question is how.

I have a few ideas on this, and will be investigating something in the next few weeks or so, and I would like to begin to open the community of ColdFusion up some more with the huge talent that does seem to come and go within the ColdFusion community. The idea will be simple, but it will also begin to provide more support and a mechanism to encourage more people to get involved in projects.

It will be something that I believe can only benefit the community as a whole so much more, and I'll post more as I give this concept some more thought, so stayed tuned.



  • Raul Riera's Gravatar I welcome you to try ColdFusion on Wheels (cfwheels.com) You will love its simplicity, if you are looking for documentation, it can be found on the Google Code link.

    :)

    shameless self promotion
    # Posted By Raul Riera | 3/24/09 9:05 PM
  • Andrew Scott's Gravatar Nothing wrong with a shameless plug, and yes I have looked at it and it shows a lot of promise. However it didn't fit my needs or requirements at the time I looked at it.
    # Posted By Andrew Scott | 3/24/09 9:35 PM
  • Ben Nadel's Gravatar RE: <i> I have always been a big advicate that Coldfusion should begin to adopt an MVC framework in the core language.</i>

    Can you explain a bit more about what you mean here? I am not sure that I follow? Do you want to alter the way ColdFusion handles page request processing?
    # Posted By Ben Nadel | 3/25/09 7:17 AM
  • Matt Woodward's Gravatar I'll be curious to see what you have cooked up.

    I discussed the 'what do you do when the framework goes away' point in a post on the Mach-II blog yesterday:

    http://bit.ly/Km1TQ
    # Posted By Matt Woodward | 3/25/09 7:24 AM
  • John Farrar's Gravatar Wow... how about a bit more contrast on the text for the blog against the background.

    Frameworks is something we will be talking about at CFUnited this year. I would ask a question... 'What makes a framework USABLE?' Usability is a programming concern also. IDE's, the way the language flows, how it allows for different styles and methodogies. These are the reasons my company uses ColdFusion. :) Not going to get into it on the comments but would love to speak on it at a podcast if someone is interested.
    # Posted By John Farrar | 3/25/09 10:22 AM
  • Jake Munson's Gravatar @Ben, Microsoft recently did this by releasing an 'official' MVC framework for ASP.Net. I think this is something that Adobe could look at.
    # Posted By Jake Munson | 3/25/09 11:42 AM
  • Glyn Jackson's Gravatar I don't agree that Adobe ColdFusion should have a MVC built-in. ColdFusion should be the core language and a tool which a developer can express thier ideas. building with any framework most appropriate for the task at hand.

    Adding an official framework could deter <open source> frameworks meaning less choice for the developer and less updates. I think you have&nbsp; missing the point, not every project has the same criteria and limiting a developer to a commercial or closed framework is not the way forward but a step backward...... think of the children, lol!
    # Posted By Glyn Jackson | 3/30/09 1:01 PM
  • Andrew Scott's Gravatar @Glyn, having an MVC built in doesn't mean that you can't still use a framework, if it is integrated in a way that allows framework authors to extent from. MVC is in all purposes a standard regardless.

    The point is that ColdFusion has too many entry points into an Application, hence too many holes to keep shut from keeping people out. MVC, stops or inhibits this so there is one entry point into the application.
    # Posted By Andrew Scott | 3/30/09 5:42 PM
  • ike's Gravatar By "too many entry points" are you meaning to say that you're ascribing MVC as a security mechanism?

    I kind of conceptually see any efforts Adobe might put forward in this direction of a "built in" framework as not being built-in but rather a separate open source framework headed up by the server's engineering team. I'm thinking something like the way the Dreamweaver engineering team also heads up the Spry project (and hooks it into Dreamweaver). So the framework wouldn't be built-in, it would just be something they develop in addition to their commercial efforts as a way of both giving back to the community and adding value to their existing products.

    p.s. http://on.tapogee.com ;) I know... I expect it's like CF Wheels, you've looked at it, wasn't what you needed at the time. Just sayin'. :)
    # Posted By ike | 3/30/09 9:35 PM
  • Andrew Scott's Gravatar @Ike - In a sense yes, but no. Let me explain this a bit more in another blog entry. But first let me say that I already am an enthusist to ColdBox and at this point in time, you will not get me to change my mind. That doesn't mean that I am not aware of other frameworks, nor do I ignore them either.
    # Posted By Andrew Scott | 3/30/09 9:47 PM